This was the first time I have seen Caligari at a Siggraph in many years. I still think that their strength lies in their excellent TS4 program that, for me and many others, became an easy and capable introduction into the world of 3D design. I hung in there as far as TS 5, which I beta tested and finally, after going to LW, donated to a talented high school kid. The interface at this point is, well...love it or hate it. Roman Ormandy, owner of Caligari, found excellent programmers in Eastern Europe that have been doing very well for him over the years.